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Debate 20: Piracy
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 11/04/2012 10:37:08
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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Internet piracy, file sharing, game borrowing, music copying, etc..
Debate: go.
Personally, I feel that you have to consider the effects and advantages/disadvantages of doing anything like this before you do it. Nothing in life is black and white and no-tolerance ideals such as 'Piracy is always wrong' are not the best way to go about it.
You have to consider things like 'Is my act harming the artist?', 'Will it be easier for me to get this game illegally?' and 'Would I pay for this music if I had to?'
Edited by The Hat of Love on 11/04/2012 10:40:16
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| PirateKing |
Posted on 11/04/2012 10:40:18
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Numpty
Posts: 1128
Joined: 01.03.12
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Well they say it's illegal. But how can you say it's illegal when the same companies make the programs nd equipment to make it possible to do that. If they really wanted to make it illegal they would stop making them.
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 11/04/2012 10:42:30
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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PirateKing wrote:
Well they say it's illegal. But how can you say it's illegal when the same companies make the programs nd equipment to make it possible to do that. If they really wanted to make it illegal they would stop making them.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. You're saying that because it can be stolen it shouldn't be made? It's not like the company that makes a video game is also making another program called 'Game Buccaneer: All Your Favourite Games Without Having to Pay!' so what do you mean here?
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| Ronald |
Posted on 11/04/2012 11:00:48
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Member
Posts: 185
Joined: 16.09.11
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The thing is, what if you have no money? What if it's for educational purposes? A lot of Pirating organizations do it so people can try things out, before they buy it. But of course, it also harms the artist, because he worked on something to win profit out of it. But it can also help him, hence Pirating can increase the popularity of a product.
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| SpartanJaz |
Posted on 11/04/2012 12:05:43
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Junior Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 13.08.12
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I think piracy is in almost all cases immoral. (In ALL cases it's illegal, but I suppose that's not what we should focus on)
In most cases, pirating can be compared to walking into a shop, taking something and walking out. That is called shoplifting.
Of course, a lot of people argue against this as digital content is merely clones of the same material and can't really be 'stolen' as such. But you should note that though this may be true technically, this makes it no less immoral. Somebody is still being harmed by what you're doing.
And then there are those who claim to pirate because large corporations have bad practices. But first of all, in most cases, these pirates are frankly lying. They claim to pirate because of bad practices, but in many cases, when some corporations improve their practices, these same pirates continue to pirate. They attempt to come up with more excuses, but many of them lamely merely make comments on the lines of "I don't care! Shut up!".
Plus regardless of corporations' bad practices, you should note that each manager of these corporations as well as every employee is a human being. It's just as cruel to steal from them as it is to steal from anyone else. Just because you don't think they deserve money, doesn't mean you can punish them. You don't know the full picture. Everybody has a mouth or more to feed whether it be only their own or a family's.
Of course, there are some situations in which it just makes sense to pirate. Some companies' marketing departments are just plain stupid. TV shows for example are freely available on TV and yet companies decide that they're going to block them digitally. And often, especially outside of the US, people are blocked from downloading any digital shows because of localisation. Now this plainly doesn't make sense. If the shows are free on TV, there is no way the companies could possibly be harmed by the shows being released digitally. The localisation issue is even worse. We're blocked just because you don't have a translation for us?! THESE are business practices that we should bypass. |
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| Joshkl2013 |
Posted on 11/04/2012 13:24:43
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Numpty
Posts: 1443
Joined: 26.05.12
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Personally, I do t have a problem with pirating. The thing with pirating is that it isn't always used in a malicious manner. Personally, I pirated Skyrim after it came out because I wanted to see if it was worth getting, because I already had Oblivion. I liked it so I bought it. My point is that not all pirates like to use that software for testing. I use it strictly for testing. I don't believe stealing is moral. If someone does not like the game, they can delete it from their computer and move on.
Another point I'd like to make is fame. Say Johnny pirates a game, then they go up to a group of friends who never heard of it and brag about it. The friends buy the game. Pirating allows people to show off games that other people would t hear of and allows the company to sell more of a product.
My final point is the point of money. Some people simply do not have the means to play a game and to enjoy themselves. I think that in this case pirating is okay in moderation. Ex. Johnny has no money and decides to pirate one game, but nothing more. I think this would be acceptable, as he can buy the game once he gets the means to, so it isn't stealing from the company.
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| SpartanJaz |
Posted on 11/04/2012 13:39:38
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Junior Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 13.08.12
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Joshkl2013 wrote:
Personally, I do t have a problem with pirating. The thing with pirating is that it isn't always used in a malicious manner. Personally, I pirated Skyrim after it came out because I wanted to see if it was worth getting, because I already had Oblivion. I liked it so I bought it. My point is that not all pirates like to use that software for testing. I use it strictly for testing. I don't believe stealing is moral. If someone does not like the game, they can delete it from their computer and move on.
Another point I'd like to make is fame. Say Johnny pirates a game, then they go up to a group of friends who never heard of it and brag about it. The friends buy the game. Pirating allows people to show off games that other people would t hear of and allows the company to sell more of a product.
My final point is the point of money. Some people simply do not have the means to play a game and to enjoy themselves. I think that in this case pirating is okay in moderation. Ex. Johnny has no money and decides to pirate one game, but nothing more. I think this would be acceptable, as he can buy the game once he gets the means to, so it isn't stealing from the company.
But how can we know that those who claim to have only pirated to try out a game are ever going to actually buy the game? You might think that it's fine because you bought the game. But what if you don't? What if you pirate the game, try it, don't like it, and don't buy it?
I mean, you can't walk into a shop, take something just to try it without asking, and then just decide whether to pay for it after you've tried it. That is still stealing whether you're going to pay later or not. You never asked for legal permission for that trial period. |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 11/04/2012 13:46:15
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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SpartanJaz wrote:
I think piracy is in almost all cases immoral. (In ALL cases it's illegal, but I suppose that's not what we should focus on)
In most cases, pirating can be compared to walking into a shop, taking something and walking out. That is called shoplifting.
Of course, a lot of people argue against this as digital content is merely clones of the same material and can't really be 'stolen' as such. But you should note that though this may be true technically, this makes it no less immoral. Somebody is still being harmed by what you're doing.
Are they, though? If my friend sends me a Dream Theater album through the internet this is illegal. Would I have bought the Dream Theater CD if my friend hadn't illegally given it to me? No, I wouldn't have, because I hadn't heard of Dream Theater. And if my friend hadn't given me that DT album I wouldn't have gone on Amazon and bought the rest of their stuff, not to mention that rather fetching t-shirt. Piracy hurts the artist? Clearly not always. In fact, most of these bands on my iTunes have the same principal - I heard about most of these through someone lending me the album. Then I bought a load more.
And then there are those who claim to pirate because large corporations have bad practices. But first of all, in most cases, these pirates are frankly lying. They claim to pirate because of bad practices, but in many cases, when some corporations improve their practices, these same pirates continue to pirate. They attempt to come up with more excuses, but many of them lamely merely make comments on the lines of "I don't care! Shut up!".
What bad practices would these be?
Plus regardless of corporations' bad practices, you should note that each manager of these corporations as well as every employee is a human being. It's just as cruel to steal from them as it is to steal from anyone else. Just because you don't think they deserve money, doesn't mean you can punish them. You don't know the full picture. Everybody has a mouth or more to feed whether it be only their own or a family's.
As discussed above, piracy does not always hurt the company. It probably helps, I'd say. Borrowing a game is punishing someone? Well, do you have any evidence of piracy's negative effects?
And let's not forget...
Of course, there are some situations in which it just makes sense to pirate. Some companies' marketing departments are just plain stupid. TV shows for example are freely available on TV and yet companies decide that they're going to block them digitally. And often, especially outside of the US, people are blocked from downloading any digital shows because of localisation. Now this plainly doesn't make sense. If the shows are free on TV, there is no way the companies could possibly be harmed by the shows being released digitally. The localisation issue is even worse. We're blocked just because you don't have a translation for us?! THESE are business practices that we should bypass.
This links into one of the main reason people pirate. Companies are now so worried about piracy that they introduce DRM, Digital Rights Management, into their products. For example, DRM may force you to play a game online at all times to make sure you've got the legal version. And if your internet goes down? Well, fuck you says the DRM, you don't get to play. But what's the stop me getting the pirated version, the version that allows me to play offline? What if I want to mod this game but only the pirated version allows that? Why would I get the full version.
When the pirates have better customer service they deserve to win.
But how can we know that those who claim to have only pirated to try out a game are ever going to actually buy the game? You might think that it's fine because you bought the game. But what if you don't? What if you pirate the game, try it, don't like it, and don't buy it?
I mean, you can't walk into a shop, take something just to try it without asking, and then just decide whether to pay for it after you've tried it. That is still stealing whether you're going to pay later or not. You never asked for legal permission for that trial period.
We don't. And yes, that's immoral and the person should really buy the game if they enjoy it. And no, they don't always but often they do and even through word-of-mouth and popularity they may still have earned the company another sale despite pirating it. And would the person have even tried the game if the option to pirate it wasn't available? If, as with my music, the answer is no, the pirate has still helped the company.
All your arguments are based on the assumption that piracy hurts the artist but we don't know that it does. It might even help, for the reasons I've said. Perhaps you could find some evidence for or against?
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| Joe |
Posted on 11/04/2012 13:53:54
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Senior Member
Posts: 386
Joined: 27.11.10
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Piracy...is almost free advertising.
I used to HATE minecraft on principle, but i played it on cracked version ('pirated' .
Needless to say, I now own the game.
Anyway, piracy
Yarr harr fiddle dee dee do what you want because a pirate is free.
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| ninja |
Posted on 11/04/2012 14:05:36
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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I wonder what PirateKing will have to say ...
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| Drkinferno |
Posted on 11/04/2012 15:30:43
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Wanker
Posts: 908
Joined: 11.05.11
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When the bank robs you, it's called a service charge. When you rob the bank, it's called a crime. |
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| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 11/04/2012 15:57:24
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
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Drkinferno wrote:
When the bank robs you, it's called a service charge. When you rob the bank, it's called a crime.
When you try to take over a country, it's a riot. When you take over a country, it's a revolution. |
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| Joshkl2013 |
Posted on 11/04/2012 16:35:02
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Numpty
Posts: 1443
Joined: 26.05.12
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I'd also like to point out that piracy doesn't really pay a role on the artist. The artists get paid a shit load of money to record their songs, and they continue to take a small margin of profits that are sold through royalties. If Johnny pirates a 99 cent song, the artist probably missed out on 9-15 cents, max.
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| MasterA |
Posted on 11/04/2012 17:50:07
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Super Admin
Posts: 2582
Joined: 21.07.11
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Well its good to note that most of the ppl who pirate to try something out and see if they like it don't actually buy the product, they just keep using the pirated version. Like music most ppl aren't going to pirate a song and if they like it buy it, they're just going to keep listening to the pirated one that they now already have.
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 11/04/2012 17:54:40
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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MasterA wrote:
Well its good to note that most of the ppl who pirate to try something out and see if they like it don't actually buy the product, they just keep using the pirated version. Like music most ppl aren't going to pirate a song and if they like it buy it, they're just going to keep listening to the pirated one that they now already have.
Hm but if they like it are they then more likely to buy the sequel to the game or their next album?
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| MasterA |
Posted on 11/04/2012 18:03:03
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Super Admin
Posts: 2582
Joined: 21.07.11
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The Hat of Love wrote:
MasterA wrote:
Well its good to note that most of the ppl who pirate to try something out and see if they like it don't actually buy the product, they just keep using the pirated version. Like music most ppl aren't going to pirate a song and if they like it buy it, they're just going to keep listening to the pirated one that they now already have.
Hm but if they like it are they then more likely to buy the sequel to the game or their next album?
Most ppl ik pirate whole albums and they would just pirate then next whole album.
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| ZA althor |
Posted on 11/05/2012 00:18:39
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Wanker
Posts: 794
Joined: 07.03.11
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im fairly certain that dl a game for trial purposes IS legal in the us if it is deleted within 24 hours. go look in the soup kitchens and homeless shelters, if you see any artists or publishers there then we can start worrying about piracy hurting them (im going to say gl wit dat) also it is illegal to buy win 98/xp/7 ect. install it, loose the disk, then dl an iso of the same version.....even with the same cd key..........not buying $200 software 2-3 times in 5 years (i loose disks like crazy) if i bought it dl an iso is no different than having a backup copy.....which they also throw a fit about. so i suppose so i dont "hurt" the multi billion dollar corporation ill spend what little i have to buy software i already own?......riiiiight
*in the fine print definition of being server active* ....{FC}[ZA]Althor, will no longer be server active |
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| ZA BlackAdder |
Posted on 11/05/2012 07:38:46
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Super Admin
Posts: 2419
Joined: 18.11.10
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artist sell millions of copies, and make a ton of money from ppl who legally buy it. they should stop being greedy, and should just be happy that ppl want to c or hear their artwork. i hate hollywood, they cryin about pirated movies, wen they already made a shit ton of money. do u rly need any more money.... greedy mofos...
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| tim |
Posted on 11/05/2012 21:23:12
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Member
Posts: 164
Joined: 09.10.11
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ZA BlackAdder wrote:
artist sell millions of copies, and make a ton of money from ppl who legally buy it. they should stop being greedy, and should just be happy that ppl want to c or hear their artwork. i hate hollywood, they cryin about pirated movies, wen they already made a shit ton of money. do u rly need any more money.... greedy mofos...
^ That pretty much.
Piracy is stealing. But the honest truth is, nobody really cares. |
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| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 11/06/2012 00:21:38
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
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ZA BlackAdder wrote:
artist sell millions of copies, and make a ton of money from ppl who legally buy it. they should stop being greedy, and should just be happy that ppl want to c or hear their artwork. i hate hollywood, they cryin about pirated movies, wen they already made a shit ton of money. do u rly need any more money.... greedy mofos...
They make money off people with money to blow or dumb people. Smart people pirate(; I don't think the top 100 artists and actors wouldn't mind us pirating. It's mostly for new artists trying to make money quick.
Just work hard and you'll be somewhere... |
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