|
Debate 9: Communism or Capitalism
|
| Phoenix |
Posted on 03/05/2012 23:56:17
|

ShawnPeezy

Posts: 2309
Joined: 16.04.11
|
Communism is hypothetical classless, moneyless, stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order
Capitalism is an economic system that includes private ownership of the means of production, creation of goods or services for profit or income, the accumulation of capital, competitive markets, voluntary exchange, and wage labor.
In my opinion, communism is the perfect form of government. It is simply perfect in every aspect. IF IT IS IS IMPLEMENTED SUCCESSFULLY. It is the government of a utopia. There have been peeks of what this government can truly lead to in shows and movies like Star Trek. Nerdy I know. But in reality, communism is try amazing. The countries who have utilized it though have disgraced its concepts to a point where it is not even truly communism.
Capitalism gives many more chances for itself to fail. It breeds personal gain and corruption. It benefits few. But just my thoughts.
Yours?
Edited by Phoenix on 03/06/2012 00:33:23



 |
| |
|
|
| Carnage |
Posted on 03/06/2012 00:16:49
|

Super Admin

Posts: 4245
Joined: 28.09.11
|
Really this should be a debate between communism and capitalism instead of democracy. Also people should note that if they are referring to the U.S. it is not a democracy and instead is a republic. "...and to the republic for which it stands..."
"Democracy gives many more chances for itself to fail. It breeds personal gain and corruption. It benefits few. But just my thoughts." -I'm pretty sure you mean capitalism.
When you compare communism with democracy you are comparing apples and oranges. One is a social theory and the other is a governmental theory.
Edited by Carnage on 03/06/2012 00:18:43
"Hey guys, I just bought this thing called a sight ward...so it's GG." - MasterA in League of Legends
 |
| |
|
|
| ZA Bvigil |
Posted on 03/06/2012 00:19:34
|

Admin

Posts: 2161
Joined: 15.11.10
|
I agree communism is a brilliant type of government, but the countries that have implemented it have not had the best people using it

 |
| |
|
|
| Dudeman |
Posted on 03/06/2012 01:24:42
|

Super Admin

Posts: 1277
Joined: 03.01.12
|
Yes on paper Communism looks like a great choice. The problem with it is that people don't have choices (freedom). I like going to the grocery store and having to decide what shampoo out of like 40 brands. Do I get all 40 brands of Shampoo? No. I like the freedom to choose which one to get.
Also getting promoted and demoted in a Communistic structure does not work out very well. Everyone would be unmotivated. Oh hey this guy gets paid 7 bucks an hour and doesn't do shit, and I get paid the same and work my ass off.
Communism is doomed. These are the cons of Communism.
Edit: References well I live in the U.S., and I have had friends from China, Cuba, and North Korea.
Edited by Dudeman on 03/06/2012 01:26:32
 |
| |
|
|
| Phoenix |
Posted on 03/06/2012 01:27:20
|

ShawnPeezy

Posts: 2309
Joined: 16.04.11
|
Communism is hypothetical classless, moneyless, stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order



 |
| |
|
|
| Carnage |
Posted on 03/06/2012 02:16:19
|

Super Admin

Posts: 4245
Joined: 28.09.11
|
exactly what motivates people in a communistic society? Cause like dudeman pointed out I would rage quit life if I was bustin my ass and dudeman was over there gettin paid the same and not doing shit and drinkin beer. I would just stop doing shit too because the government is gonna give me my money anyways. There is no incentive to better yourself or to aspire to excel at anything you do.
Edited by Carnage on 03/06/2012 02:18:00
"Hey guys, I just bought this thing called a sight ward...so it's GG." - MasterA in League of Legends
 |
| |
|
|
| Dudeman |
Posted on 03/06/2012 04:16:57
|

Super Admin

Posts: 1277
Joined: 03.01.12
|
^+1 Carnage!
And Phoenix Kami's have a currency Lol
 |
| |
|
|
| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 03/06/2012 12:26:29
|

ShawnPeezy

Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
|
I prefer the idea of communism, as long as it's implemented successfully. For example, in the old Soviet states you pretty much had to have this one car which I can't remember which fell apart and was generally shit. So that kind of thing gives communism a bad name but it can work, I'm sure.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
 |
| |
|
|
| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 03/06/2012 15:19:16
|
ShawnPeezy

Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
|
They both have their pro's and con's.
In general, for the sake of most people, Communism, used in the decent manner, would work close to perfect fro everyone.
Capitalism, hmm...good for some, bad for most. It's just all about surviving and everyone fighting to be at the top but at the same time your competing with everyone else. |
| |
|
|
| Phoenix |
Posted on 03/06/2012 18:58:20
|

ShawnPeezy

Posts: 2309
Joined: 16.04.11
|
Everyone's points about communism is based on the IMPERFECT forms that other countries have applied. My support was for PURE COMMUNISM. And once again:
Communism is hypothetical classless, moneyless, stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order



 |
| |
|
|
| ZA lemonzandcandy |
Posted on 03/06/2012 19:25:44
|

Numpty

Posts: 1209
Joined: 18.12.10
|
Screw this, I'm a anarchist!

-cod md- - terraria md?- |
| |
|
|
| Lolmat |
Posted on 03/06/2012 19:30:28
|
Member

Posts: 122
Joined: 23.12.10
|
So I have finally joined the fray.
First off.
Not to sound like a prat, but communists are not souls of inanimate Japanese objects, or "commy's", or whatever else alternative spelling you can think of. Simply put, it's "commie".
Now, I want to clarify.
1. No Communist state (by the pure definition of Marx and Engels) has ever existed. I will brusquely say that because there is no such thing as a state, in the "grand revolution" plotted by the masses. Yes, there are communist parties, but all of the countries we called "communist" are socialist (ex. Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics).
2. While we associate democracy with capitalism, and authoritarianism with communism, the two classifications are independent of each other. For example, not-that-long-ago the ruling Communist Party out of one of India's provinces got voted out in elections (maybe a year or two ago). In vice versa, facist states are clearly not communist, but are pretty authoritarian to me, anyways.
Here's my real opinion (disregarding jokes).
- The pure extreme of either is bad. I think flirting with socialism is perfectly fine, if you ask me. Now, let's use some examples, shall we?
-> India and China. India began with a wonderful, capitalist, democratic system, while China began with a communist government. Both economies were in shambles and disarray due to arbitrary factors. However, the centralization of China's economy under its government allowed it to reindustrialize far more quicker than India (which India has only just begun to catch up).
-> It is important to note that yes, China has a communist party. But it's economy (at least until recently) has been more capitalist than we have. The economy had little to no regulations, and gave much discretion to the companies to do what they wanted. Compare that to the US, where such ideas such as Social Security or minimum wage originated from the likes of Eugene Debs, the Socialist presidential candidate. We flirt with socialism a tad.
- As demonstrated earlier,Socialism is a much more ideal system for countries who have to reindustrialize due to war, famine, etc. However, as in Marx's dreams, Communism will be kind of like French Utopianism (and echos a little bit of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity). Obviously, in the eyes of "what is fair" or not, one will lean towards Communism.
- Pure capitalism is one can be merciless in pay, conditions, or worker's comp., all in the name of profit. But, it powers the ingenuity and imagination to create new items, or invent new techniques. Good for business; bad for the workers.
So if we're talking realistic, I'll just go with socialism.
*BUT: If we can have a pure, super-retro-Marxist world, then by far I'll go for Communism. No war. No states. Everyone living in harmony. I like the idea, but I highly doubt any communist revolution will suddenly be seized by the masses anytime soon.
 |
| |
|
|
| Dudeman |
Posted on 03/08/2012 07:44:55
|

Super Admin

Posts: 1277
Joined: 03.01.12
|
Not Dudemanism?
 |
| |
|
|
| ZA lemonzandcandy |
Posted on 03/08/2012 16:42:32
|

Numpty

Posts: 1209
Joined: 18.12.10
|
Lolmat wrote:
So I have finally joined the fray.
First off.
Not to sound like a prat, but communists are not souls of inanimate Japanese objects, or "commy's", or whatever else alternative spelling you can think of. Simply put, it's "commie".
Now, I want to clarify.
1. No Communist state (by the pure definition of Marx and Engels) has ever existed. I will brusquely say that because there is no such thing as a state, in the "grand revolution" plotted by the masses. Yes, there are communist parties, but all of the countries we called "communist" are socialist (ex. Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics).
2. While we associate democracy with capitalism, and authoritarianism with communism, the two classifications are independent of each other. For example, not-that-long-ago the ruling Communist Party out of one of India's provinces got voted out in elections (maybe a year or two ago). In vice versa, facist states are clearly not communist, but are pretty authoritarian to me, anyways.
Here's my real opinion (disregarding jokes).
- The pure extreme of either is bad. I think flirting with socialism is perfectly fine, if you ask me. Now, let's use some examples, shall we?
-> India and China. India began with a wonderful, capitalist, democratic system, while China began with a communist government. Both economies were in shambles and disarray due to arbitrary factors. However, the centralization of China's economy under its government allowed it to reindustrialize far more quicker than India (which India has only just begun to catch up).
-> It is important to note that yes, China has a communist party. But it's economy (at least until recently) has been more capitalist than we have. The economy had little to no regulations, and gave much discretion to the companies to do what they wanted. Compare that to the US, where such ideas such as Social Security or minimum wage originated from the likes of Eugene Debs, the Socialist presidential candidate. We flirt with socialism a tad.
- As demonstrated earlier,Socialism is a much more ideal system for countries who have to reindustrialize due to war, famine, etc. However, as in Marx's dreams, Communism will be kind of like French Utopianism (and echos a little bit of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity). Obviously, in the eyes of "what is fair" or not, one will lean towards Communism.
- Pure capitalism is one can be merciless in pay, conditions, or worker's comp., all in the name of profit. But, it powers the ingenuity and imagination to create new items, or invent new techniques. Good for business; bad for the workers.
So if we're talking realistic, I'll just go with socialism.
*BUT: If we can have a pure, super-retro-Marxist world, then by far I'll go for Communism. No war. No states. Everyone living in harmony. I like the idea, but I highly doubt any communist revolution will suddenly be seized by the masses anytime soon.

-cod md- - terraria md?- |
| |
|
|
| Drkinferno |
Posted on 03/08/2012 18:44:45
|
Wanker

Posts: 908
Joined: 11.05.11
|
going anarchistic  |
| |
|
|
| ZA lemonzandcandy |
Posted on 03/08/2012 20:02:00
|

Numpty

Posts: 1209
Joined: 18.12.10
|
Anarchy = no communishs squared.

-cod md- - terraria md?- |
| |
|
|
| Lolmat |
Posted on 03/08/2012 20:27:50
|
Member

Posts: 122
Joined: 23.12.10
|
lol good luck running anything with anarchy
 |
| |
|
|
| ZA lemonzandcandy |
Posted on 03/08/2012 21:36:16
|

Numpty

Posts: 1209
Joined: 18.12.10
|
Communish people rock because they can control shit instead of Anarchy.

-cod md- - terraria md?- |
| |
|
|
| Dudeman |
Posted on 03/08/2012 22:45:55
|

Super Admin

Posts: 1277
Joined: 03.01.12
|
Lemonz I'm sorry but you and Phoenix are so Naive....
 |
| |
|
|
| Lolmat |
Posted on 03/08/2012 22:57:37
|
Member

Posts: 122
Joined: 23.12.10
|
Mmh, I would say that Phoenix is simply going on the definition of Communism that Marx and co. wanted.
 |
| |
|