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Prisoners' Voting Rights
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 01/30/2013 15:53:57
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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Should prisoners be allowed to vote?
On one hand, can we take away their democratic right? On the other, do they deserve it?
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| ninja |
Posted on 01/30/2013 16:09:41
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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Tricky, I'm leaning towards yes they should be able to, but I need to think about it a bit more and hear other people's opinions before I form a proper argument.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| RazNinjaMike |
Posted on 01/30/2013 16:34:20
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Moderator
Posts: 4586
Joined: 20.11.10
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minor offense prisoners. yes major offense prisoners no. no rights for them........... |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 01/30/2013 16:58:16
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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RazNinjaMike wrote:
minor offense prisoners. yes major offense prisoners no. no rights for them...........
Ok, where do you draw the line? And why some but not others exactly?
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| BloodBrother |
Posted on 01/30/2013 17:55:33
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Senior Member
Posts: 388
Joined: 06.12.12
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It is a tough one. I will say that I don't think they should have the right to vote. They ended up in prison because they were a detriment to society in one form or another (there are some who aren't in prison who are a detriment to society) and I would they have lost that privilege. I assume you are talking about those who are going to be in prison for year/s at a time, not someone who has to spend 15 to 60 days for dui or something like that.
"Luceo Non Uro" means I Shine, not Burn
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| za heystarface |
Posted on 01/30/2013 20:58:00
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Admin
Posts: 6130
Joined: 20.11.10
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Well all you need to do in order to "DESERVE" to vote in America is be American. So by our legal standards, yes - they do deserve to vote. It is an inalienable right.
However - on a personal level - I don't think that criminals (violent offenders, repeat offenders, federal offenders, max-security prisoners, ya-know - the long-term incarcerations, should be allowed to vote while they are behind bars. I think that their crimes/convictions prove that they are not fit to make responsible decisions.
This is really not a well developed argument on my part though - because on the other hand - what about all the stupid people out there that are still able to vote? People still buy votes, some politicians are worse than the people behind bars, not everyone in jail is incapable of making a proper judgement about who should be elected, etc etc etc.
So I changed my mind - yes - they should be able to vote.
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| soulcyon |
Posted on 01/30/2013 21:07:45
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Senior Member
Posts: 301
Joined: 13.08.12
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As a prisoner, you lose many of your rights as a citizen.
We should really be questioning why USA has the largest prison population in the world, rather than letting the criminals have a say in government policy. I believe letting prisoner's vote is as dangerous as letting them free before their time.
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| BloodBrother |
Posted on 01/30/2013 22:37:31
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Senior Member
Posts: 388
Joined: 06.12.12
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There are a lot questions that need to be asked about the United States.
"Luceo Non Uro" means I Shine, not Burn
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| MasterA |
Posted on 01/30/2013 23:17:56
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Super Admin
Posts: 2582
Joined: 21.07.11
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No I don't think they should be able to personally.
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| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 01/30/2013 23:31:13
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
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They should not be able to vote. The point of prison is to restrict freedom, the right to do what ever. |
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| ninja |
Posted on 01/31/2013 12:18:19
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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It's not a democracy if some people are excluded from voting. They might disagree with the current government, and more specifically the reason for which they are locked up. They should be able to vote for a government that agrees with their philosophy on life, just like everybody else.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| BloodBrother |
Posted on 01/31/2013 12:24:40
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Senior Member
Posts: 388
Joined: 06.12.12
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Then again a teacher has the right to punish kid by not allowing them to have recess, or have to sit alone in the corner at lunch something. Isn't that similar to a prisoner not being able to vote. The kid did something wrong and is being punished by not having his/her recess. That is a right of the child, as of every other child has their recess, but because the child did something wrong, they have lost the privilege of recess for the duration of that punishment. So, couldn't it be said that a prisoner has lost their right to vote for the duration of their sentence?
"Luceo Non Uro" means I Shine, not Burn
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| MasterA |
Posted on 01/31/2013 12:26:23
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Super Admin
Posts: 2582
Joined: 21.07.11
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They aren't just like everyone else though, they affected society in a negative way. Of course ppl do that all the time out of prison but I think those that have been convicted and are serving time should lose the privilege. We also have the right to "bear arms" but we're not going to hand a gun to every convicted felon. That may not be the best example.
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| ninja |
Posted on 01/31/2013 12:56:58
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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MasterA wrote:
They aren't just like everyone else though, they affected society in a negative way. Of course ppl do that all the time out of prison but I think those that have been convicted and are serving time should lose the privilege. We also have the right to "bear arms" but we're not going to hand a gun to every convicted felon. That may not be the best example.
Yes, from the point of view of the current government, or the judges who sentenced them, they affected society in a negative way. But, they might think that what they did was fine, or even affected society in a positive way. Their vote allows them to express their opinion and be who they want to be, rather than being oppressed and moulded by society.
And no, the 'right to bear arms' isn't a great example, especially for someone who doesn't agree with that 'right' (it's a 'wrong'!). But we've already discussed that.
What, in your opinion, is the point of prison?
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| BloodBrother |
Posted on 01/31/2013 13:28:55
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Senior Member
Posts: 388
Joined: 06.12.12
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Prison is to an adult, as time out is to a child. It is a time for the individual to reflect upon an action that they did. Whether that action was brought upon by hatred, vengeance, stupidity, or whatever, it is still an action that needs to be reprimanded.
Just because someone thinks what they did was right, doesn't make it right. If I walked up to the first person I saw and punched them square in the face, without ever meeting them before, without any just cause, would that be right? I can't say "It just felt like the right thing to do" and expect people to agree with me. I don't think a convicted murderer, rapist, etc should have there say matter in society. Clearly, they weren't able to make the right choices when they had the chance.
"Luceo Non Uro" means I Shine, not Burn
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| ninja |
Posted on 01/31/2013 13:43:19
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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BloodBrother wrote:
Prison is to an adult, as time out is to a child. It is a time for the individual to reflect upon an action that they did. Whether that action was brought upon by hatred, vengeance, stupidity, or whatever, it is still an action that needs to be reprimanded.
If they're the most reflective members of society, perhaps they're most qualified to make thought-out decisions and help decide our government?
Just because someone thinks what they did was right, doesn't make it right. If I walked up to the first person I saw and punched them square in the face, without ever meeting them before, without any just cause, would that be right? I can't say "It just felt like the right thing to do" and expect people to agree with me. I don't think a convicted murderer, rapist, etc should have there say matter in society. Clearly, they weren't able to make the right choices when they had the chance.
Why not? How can you say that something is objectively right, or wrong? If you feel it's the right thing to do, then from your point of view, it is right, regardless of the act. Laws just lay out what the people who run the country at the moment think is right. Maybe they're wrong. Why should you judge people by your moral philosophy, and why should you be judged by theirs? You should be able to define yourself through your actions rather than being forced into conforming to society's expectations of how you should behave.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| BloodBrother |
Posted on 01/31/2013 14:38:49
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Senior Member
Posts: 388
Joined: 06.12.12
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If they are the most reflective individuals in society, then they shouldn't be in prison in the first place. They should have had the capacity to think through with what they were about to do. Those individuals should be able to see the consequence of their actions.
Just because I think it is right though, doesn't necessarily make it right, it may be right in my own view, but morally it is wrong. There is in no circumstance in which is it is right for any human being to rape a child, women, man. Even if the individual committing the act thinks it is right, it is not right. It is very wrong.
Whether we want to admit it or not, I think we as humans, naturally judge people. I know I do every time I race. I look around at those near me and try to figure out who my top competitors are going to be. We judge people by our moral philosophy because that is what we live by. Now, whether we force our moral philosophy onto others is a different story. It's one thing to judge someone and another thing to force it upon someone. I don't think it would be right to force our moral philosophy/belief upon anyone else.
I fully agree that we should define ourselves through our actions and not be forced to conform with society. The worlds greatest achievements have been a result of not conforming to the norm, not believing all those who doubt you. However, I do believe that, whenever your actions are causing harm to others, we are morally obligated to step in and do what you can to make a difference. I'm not talk about hurt feelings type of harm, but bodily harm, whether physical or emotional, should not be tolerated. Making fun of young kids because their weight until they commit suicide, that is wrong. Going out and kidnapping a young child, that is wrong. Murdering someone is wrong. Those type of things should be punished.
"Luceo Non Uro" means I Shine, not Burn
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| ninja |
Posted on 01/31/2013 14:49:47
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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BloodBrother wrote:
Just because I think it is right though, doesn't necessarily make it right, it may be right in my own view, but morally it is wrong. There is in no circumstance in which is it is right for any human being to rape a child, women, man. Even if the individual committing the act thinks it is right, it is not right. It is very wrong.
How can you decide what is morally right or wrong, if such statements, as you agree, depend on viewpoint?
Whether we want to admit it or not, I think we as humans, naturally judge people. I know I do every time I race. I look around at those near me and try to figure out who my top competitors are going to be. We judge people by our moral philosophy because that is what we live by. Now, whether we force our moral philosophy onto others is a different story. It's one thing to judge someone and another thing to force it upon someone. I don't think it would be right to force our moral philosophy/belief upon anyone else.
Exactly, it's not right to force our moral philosophy upon anyone else. But that's exactly what you're doing when you take away peoples' rights and lock them up in a prison. If they are given the opportunity to vote, they can express their views and encourage a government more in line with their own philosophy.
I fully agree that we should define ourselves through our actions and not be forced to conform with society. The worlds greatest achievements have been a result of not conforming to the norm, not believing all those who doubt you. However, I do believe that, whenever your actions are causing harm to others, we are morally obligated to step in and do what you can to make a difference. I'm not talk about hurt feelings type of harm, but bodily harm, whether physical or emotional, should not be tolerated. Making fun of young kids because their weight until they commit suicide, that is wrong. Going out and kidnapping a young child, that is wrong. Murdering someone is wrong. Those type of things should be punished.
Again, you think they're wrong, but others might not. Where's this moral guideline that you're assuming holds for everybody?
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| soulcyon |
Posted on 01/31/2013 15:56:09
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Senior Member
Posts: 301
Joined: 13.08.12
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I think we should first agree on this: USA is not a democracy. It's easier to call it a democracy, but in reality its a Democratic Republic. A real Democracy ensures the majority wins - and technically, everybody must have a vote. This is not how the US government operates, it's just easier for the media and politicians to say "democracy" than "representative democracy".
Putting that aside, prisoners do not deserve "unusual or cruel punishment", but they also do not deserve the same rights as the law-abiding citizens. Realistically, what good can come from a prisoner's vote? They are criminals, and society benefits from criminals being behind bars. Allowing prisoners to vote will only poison the system with some form of corruption.
@ninja, Moral philosophies are only created through unwritten consensus within a society. Sometimes we reflect on our opinions and the philosophies come to light (such as what Aristotle did). What is "morally good" and "morally bad" is different from person to person, there is no absolute truth when dealing with societal norms.
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| Revenge |
Posted on 01/31/2013 16:38:39
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Super Admin
Posts: 1297
Joined: 28.06.12
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Prison is just negative reinforcement, much like a teacher punishing their students. Why would a teacher punish her students if they're going to just get more freedom anyways? They are in jail because they broke the law in someway, which often means they took someone's rights away. Why can the government not do the same?
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