The only reason the gov of mi sighed this law, was because the unions forced a proposal to put collective bargaining in the state constitution during the election...
�RG� (Renegade Gamers) Senior Admin [C�R] Veteren
Well, first I have managed union and non-workers alike in construction. I was raised by a union pipefitter. Had a blessed child hood because of it. I worked as a non-union construction worker before getting into management and here's something you should know ODIS. your still fairly young and have much to learn about these topics. Non unionized shops the workers are not treated fairly. The boss makes the money and the workers get the bread crumbs leftover. Unionized shops the workers and bosses both reap the benefits. On the other with unions to build something gets costly. Public construction projects aka capital projects are funded by taxes and are typically by federal law built on union labor. Private funded projects are funded out of pocket hence they go with non union workers cause of cheaper cost. There are many reasons why I favor unions because of the proper safety training, classes, etc.. that non union shops won't foot the bill to properly train their workers thus increasing turn over rate. As an associate project manager in industrial construction I can assure you right to work is nothing but a shitty way around federal law to pay lower wages and benefits to workers. Republican logic for ya. What I have explained here is fact and only the tip of the iceberg. Outrageous you ask? Yes it is!
Actually, i haven't given my opinion lol, i just saw this and was like, hmm, this would make an interesting debate...
I completely agree herc that unions are needed. Without them, people would as you said, not be properly trained, not enough money, and all that. But right to work doesn't mean they can't join unions. They can if they want. It pretty much says that when they join a work place, they are not forced to join that work place's union. If they want to, then they can join, no one is stopping them. If they don't want to be in a union, pay union fines, and all that, why should they e forced to? it just gives them a choice. If it gives them less safety, less money, less health, less rights in not being in a union, then if they feel that is so, then they will join a union and get those rights.
But now my thought on unionized states. I do agree that unions are a very important and helpful thing, but when you make it almost impossible to get a job without joining a union, its wrong. Why? Because you make a monopoly on it. One big union for every craft job. If you want a job, you have to join and pay dues, even if you don't want to. Its forcing these people to join a union. What if they don't want to? Who has the right to tell them whats good for themselves? Are people not smart enough to tell whats good for themselves? If they think they don't get enough wages, or not treated fair, they can join a union, no one is stopping them, unions can still negotiate wages.
Now you may say, if they don't have a monopoly, then how will the company's pay the rightful wages a union worker deserves?
They won't, they will pay what price the job is fit for, you don't pay a bellboy 50 dollars an hour because he's poor and needs the money. He will deserve the amount the job is worth. If you don't then that bumpiness will go out of business because the job is not worth that much.
Lets say an example, here in MI, the waiter union, their are rumors going around that they want to have the average waiter salary 20 dollars an hour. Do you think that job is deserving of that much? Probably not. That is a lot of money, anyone can waiter, why go into other business, when you can get that much money being a Waiter? and the waiter company who has these workers which is probably a small business, will have to pay exorbitant fees to the workers more then their worth, then either this company raises prices to customers, who then, not wanting to pay, don't go their, thus the place goes out of business, on the other hand, if they don't raise prices, then this company is screwed because of the wages they are forced to pay, this is a unionized state, no one is allowed to join a workplace without joining a union, so thus, the company has no alternatives, thus the business is killed. Its like a super corporation, that no one can beat, they always have the upper hand, small business is crushed. But aren't unions supposed to fight for workers and save them from super corporations? in fighting these corporations who are unfair to workers, and i do agree, they do crush the worker, but they have become what they fight and hate...
In the end, i do agree with you herc, that unions are needed, but, unions can't be forced onto a person, like the unfairness of company trying to save a buck forcing unsafe or unfair things it onto the workers.
Workers must have the right to chose. And now that its right to work, the unions don't have a monopoly.
Now even if they are needed. Is this how they react? Going out and mobbing the streets? Beating people up? Condoning violence? Even if right to work is bad, a majority of people in this state wanted it. If it is bad, then the people in this state will get what they deserve for getting it in. But they shouldn't go out and start throwing a temper tantrum. Even if it was bad, the people wanted it, and no one has the right to decide for the people. The people decide... the unions don't.
Edited by ODST on 12/13/2012 15:43:17
�RG� (Renegade Gamers) Senior Admin [C�R] Veteren
mmm some people will not work for unions for a reason. when working for a union it makes choices for you.
*in the fine print definition of being server active* ....{FC}[ZA]Althor, will no longer be server active
ODIs the part you missed, although well put is the dues pay for the representation that bargains their contracts. I know they can join a union with the right to work law. One thing your not catching about this laws purpose is the dues which only are taking out of their paycheck on an average if 30-40d dollars a month pay for that representation. This representation negotiates their contracts. Pentions being one of them. Non union workers can join a pointless for the most part 401k plan. The purpose of right to work is to eliminate the representatives who negotiate their contracts. With out that they fall. In other words the unions lose their voice or power to negotiate. The domino effect is lower wages NO PENTIONS and less health care. Do some more research how they actually operate. Your not quite there yet, but I can I see your starting to understand how it works.
