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Abortions
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| Drkinferno |
Posted on 01/15/2013 17:21:57
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Wanker
Posts: 908
Joined: 11.05.11
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ZA BrickSquad wrote:
You guys will love this! =)
If you said yes to the fourth case, you have just declared the murder of Jesus Christ!
At least that spares him the cross. |
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| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 01/16/2013 00:00:59
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
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The Hat of Love wrote:
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
1. There's a preacher and wife who are very, very, poor. They already have 14 kids. Now she finds out she's pregnant with her 15th. They're living in tremendous poverty. Considering their poverty and the excessive world population, would you consider recommending she get an abortion?
2. The father is sick with sniffles, the mother has TB. They have 4 children. the 1st is blind, the 2nd is dead, the 3rd is deaf and the 4th has TB. she finds she's pregnant again. Given the extreme situation, would you consider recommending abortion?
3. A white man raped a 13 year old black girl and she got pregnant. If you were her parents, would you consider recommending abortion?
4. A teenage girl is pregnant. She's not married. Here fiancee is not the father of the baby, and he's very upset. Would you consider recommending abortion?
Answers:
If you have answered "yes" in any of these situations:
In the first case, you have just killed John Wesley. One of the great evangelists of the 19th century.
In the second case, you have killed Beethoven.
In the third case, you have killed Ethel Waters, the great black gospel singer.
If you said yes to the fourth case, you have just declared the murder of Jesus Christ!
Like Atticus said, this works both ways. For example:
1. A happily married couple are going to have a baby which would appear to be healthy and sound. Do you recommend an abortion?
If you said no you have just given life to Hitler, Mussolini and all manner of unpleasant people - support abortions 100% so that no unpleasant people ever get born!
I believe in Britain that abortions are only allowed for good reason - that is, you can only have one if you can justify it (or something similar) meaning that you can't just use abortions as a form of contraception. I think this is the right way to go about it; I may be pro-choice but only as long as the choice isn't stupid.
But Hat, don't you think more GOOD people would come out than BAD people? Statistically speaking.
I agree with you Hat, abortion shouldn't be a form of contraception. Unless if it affects the mother's health/life, the baby will not make it so long, and rape.
If some girl is raped, you can't force her to carry the baby. Think about how the girl feels about the experience, and also if her body is too stressed it can negatively affect the baby growing inside her.
Edited by ZA BrickSquad on 01/16/2013 00:01:50 |
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| Carnage |
Posted on 01/16/2013 01:19:47
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Super Admin
Posts: 4245
Joined: 28.09.11
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I think it starts with proper sex education. Teaching kids how to put on a condom or take a pill is much better than abstinence.
I support the woman's right to choose what to do with her own body and whatever happens to be inhabiting it. I will not go into further detail for the sake of keeping this civilized, but suffice it to say I don't think fetuses are considered viable until they can survive without normal/regular help from the mother or guardian. What I mean by that is babies born at 4 months that have to be kept on respirators/incubators to stay alive, are not, imo, viable. 100 years ago that baby would have succumbed to natural selection and died. Does our advancement in medicine change this, perhaps but that's a topic for another debate.
I do not support partial-birth abortion past the point where the fetus would be viable outside the mother. I believe trained medical professionals should be in charge or deciding if a fetus is viable or not.
In cases where the fetus displays a likelihood to be genetically impaired I fully support abortion up until viability, but again that would be the job of a medical professional to determine. I think that babies with Down's syndrome or similar conditions can still be viable and there are people who dedicate themselves to caring for these people. I am not one of those people but that is why we have adoption agencies.
I typed this on my phone so if you find typos, give yourself a cookie.
"Hey guys, I just bought this thing called a sight ward...so it's GG." - MasterA in League of Legends
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| Hercules |
Posted on 01/16/2013 01:51:17
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Numpty
Posts: 1334
Joined: 18.09.12
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I'll just leave this subject alone. A little too controversial. This type of debate tends to create a catch 22. |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 01/16/2013 11:38:09
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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ZA BrickSquad wrote:
But Hat, don't you think more GOOD people would come out than BAD people? Statistically speaking.
There is no way to tell how good someone will be before they are born so I don't see that it should affect the issue.
I pretty much agree with everything else you said.
Edited by The Hat of Love on 01/16/2013 11:39:00
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| ninja |
Posted on 01/16/2013 12:09:20
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Super Admin
Posts: 4174
Joined: 15.11.10
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The Hat of Love wrote:
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
But Hat, don't you think more GOOD people would come out than BAD people? Statistically speaking.
There is no way to tell how good someone will be before they are born so I don't see that it should affect the issue.
I think what he means is that if you stop looking on a case-by-base basis, and consider all of the cases together, statistically you would have prevented more good people than bad people from being born. Valid point if it's true.
However, no data, so no statistics allowed.
My brain is open.
- Paul Erdős |
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| ZA BrickSquad |
Posted on 01/16/2013 14:15:01
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11
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ninja wrote:
The Hat of Love wrote:
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
But Hat, don't you think more GOOD people would come out than BAD people? Statistically speaking.
There is no way to tell how good someone will be before they are born so I don't see that it should affect the issue.
I think what he means is that if you stop looking on a case-by-base basis, and consider all of the cases together, statistically you would have prevented more good people than bad people from being born. Valid point if it's true.
However, no data, so no statistics allowed.
Well look at the world right now. Most people born are law abiding and mean something in this world. So lets use that, and stop abortions.
But I do agree with abortions if the child will not survived too long, or a woman's right to abortion if she was raped. |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 01/16/2013 14:32:01
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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ZA BrickSquad wrote:
ninja wrote:
The Hat of Love wrote:
ZA BrickSquad wrote:
But Hat, don't you think more GOOD people would come out than BAD people? Statistically speaking.
There is no way to tell how good someone will be before they are born so I don't see that it should affect the issue.
I think what he means is that if you stop looking on a case-by-base basis, and consider all of the cases together, statistically you would have prevented more good people than bad people from being born. Valid point if it's true.
However, no data, so no statistics allowed.
Well look at the world right now. Most people born are law abiding and mean something in this world. So lets use that, and stop abortions.
But I do agree with abortions if the child will not survived too long, or a woman's right to abortion if she was raped.
Like I said, I don't agree with abortions for no reason, only for things like rape or health (either of the child or the mother). So we agree there.
There was a news story a while back where a woman died (I think it was in Ireland) because she was refused an abortion on the grounds that Ireland 'is a Catholic country.' I don't think you can justify that; it's not a black and white issue and abortions should definitely be allowed, if only occasionally.
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| Joshkl2013 |
Posted on 01/16/2013 17:05:21
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Numpty
Posts: 1443
Joined: 26.05.12
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Hercules wrote:
I'll just leave this subject alone. A little too controversial. This type of debate tends to create a catch 22.
I agree with you. I'll just chill on the sidelines and watch.
Just for the sake of debating, at what point would a baby considered valid or human? Is it okay to have an abortion before that point? What about after?
I wanna be like RAZ!!! [ZÅ]Paradox
Need a shotgun to protect you while you snipe? Call
1-800-SHOTGUN today!
Need a nuke? Call 1-800-NUKE-ALL
Take advantage of this limited offer now!
Offer expires in 3..2..1...
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| tim |
Posted on 01/16/2013 17:40:44
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Member
Posts: 164
Joined: 09.10.11
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Hercules wrote:
I'll just leave this subject alone. A little too controversial. This type of debate tends to create a catch 22.
Wow props to you man, I thought I was the only person in the entire internet that actaully read Catch-22. Excellent read and I always use the phrase with my firends and they never get it LOL.
Now on topic, I believe abortion is up to a woman and her choice on whether or not she is capable of raising a child or if the fetus is threatening her life. I don't condone to stupid idiots who think that they can have sex unprotected and just say that they can go ahead and get an abortion. However I think abortion should be used on instances of rape, incest, ectopic pregnancies, or very rare congenital defects. I also believe that if a woman is not able to properly take care of a child should have their options to terminate their fetus. It is their body. Banning abortions wouldn't be a very smart idea either, just cause it's illegal wouldn't stop women from trying to seek out abortions. Backstreet abortions are filthy disgusting procedures used by unlicensed unsanitary idiots who use make shift tools like vacuums and coat hangers to carry out a very delicate procedure. I think it would be better if there were sanitary clinics where women can go to to have it done, not by some quack.
On the case of how some people think it could be taken as murder, a fetus isn't a human technically. A fetus is kind of like a parasite with the exception of any negative effects on the "host" in which case would be the mother.
BUT like Herc said, Catch-22... |
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| Carnage |
Posted on 01/16/2013 17:53:17
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Super Admin
Posts: 4245
Joined: 28.09.11
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Tim brings up an interesting point about the fetus being a parasite because they actually do fit the biological definition of a parasite: An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
Definitely a catch-22...
"Hey guys, I just bought this thing called a sight ward...so it's GG." - MasterA in League of Legends
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| Drkinferno |
Posted on 01/16/2013 18:00:05
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Wanker
Posts: 908
Joined: 11.05.11
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We could just steralize undesirables, there wouldn't be a need for abortions |
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| The Hat of Love |
Posted on 01/16/2013 18:30:24
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ShawnPeezy
Posts: 9035
Joined: 31.07.11
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Drkinferno wrote:
We could just steralize undesirables, there wouldn't be a need for abortions
think you could go just one debate without suggesting eugenics?
my signature broke, here is a fox snek:
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| Drkinferno |
Posted on 01/16/2013 18:43:43
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Wanker
Posts: 908
Joined: 11.05.11
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The Hat of Love wrote:
Drkinferno wrote:
We could just steralize undesirables, there wouldn't be a need for abortions
think you could go just one debate without suggesting eugenics?
Not reallyy if the topic is like abortion. Besides it has the right idea
*Content removed by Carnage.*
Edited by Carnage on 01/16/2013 18:47:19 |
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| Moony |
Posted on 01/16/2013 20:38:47
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Member
Posts: 121
Joined: 06.01.13
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Drkinferno wrote:
The Hat of Love wrote:
Drkinferno wrote:
We could just steralize undesirables, there wouldn't be a need for abortions
think you could go just one debate without suggesting eugenics?
Not reallyy if the topic is like abortion. Besides it has the right idea
The idea to scrap genetic variation and restrict the genepool to just "beneficial" genotypes and phenotypes is a good idea?
You do realise some recessive genes have unexpected benefits, right?
Sufferers of Sickle-Cell Anaemia, which is a homozygous recessive (you need a recessive gene from your mother and father- who must therefore have at least one of the paired gene to be recessive themselves) trait have an unexpected benefit- Passing down the gene to heterozygous dominant, or those who "carry" the gene for SCA but do not suffer from the effects of SCA- offers the people who carry the gene but do not suffer from it evolved resistance to the malaria parasite Plasmodium.
Malaria is pandemic throughout Africa, South Asia and North S.America. Similarly, SCA is concentrated through Africa and South Asia.
Removing that gene from the genepool would offer a region where malaria is widespread less resistance and cause more deaths.
Sure, SCA is a nasty disease- it causes abnormal red blood cell shapes, which cause painful crises, but it has a benefit which makes it important to keep around.
Tu fui, ego eris.
Signature: Maribelle, Fire Emblem Awakening |
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| rawr |
Posted on 01/16/2013 20:42:32
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Wanker
Posts: 733
Joined: 30.03.12
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This is what we all looked like at 12 weeks in the womb. Legal to kill in all 50 states. Anyone think its not a person?
What We Do In Life Echos In Eternity.
STUPID = Smart Talented Unique Person In Demand
Can you run faster than 1,200 feet per second? In case you didn’t know, that is the average speed of a 9 mm bullet fired from my gun.
Before you criticize people, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them…
you are a mile away from them…
and you have their shoes.
“I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.”
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| Moony |
Posted on 01/16/2013 21:05:52
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Member
Posts: 121
Joined: 06.01.13
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rawr wrote:
-image removed for space-
This is what we all looked like at 12 weeks in the womb. Legal to kill in all 50 states. Anyone think its not a person?
Think of it this way.
Theoretically, let's say a given person's next child had something genuinely life threatening. Not Downs syndrome, not SCA, or ADHD, Aspergers, or anything that a child could feasibly still live a full life through, something like Tay-Sach's Disease, which kills within four to five years no matter what you do- there's no treatment for it, and as far as my research goes it causes the child constant pain as well as deaf/blindness and reduced movement.
Is it fair or humane to let that child live? To live a life of and know nothing but pain from birth until death, not seeing, not hearing, just pain until the end?
This is the sort of thing what eugenics wants to remove from the genepool. My concern is that it'll get too over-the top, though...
Tu fui, ego eris.
Signature: Maribelle, Fire Emblem Awakening |
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| tim |
Posted on 01/16/2013 21:25:54
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Member
Posts: 164
Joined: 09.10.11
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rawr wrote:
This is what we all looked like at 12 weeks in the womb. Legal to kill in all 50 states. Anyone think its not a person?
I agree with what Moony says.
I know it is a shitty thing to terminate a fetus, but weigh the options and pressures of a woman who is pregnant.
Also, regardless of whether a fetus is a human being or has rights, women will have abortions anyway, even if it means breaking the law or risking their lives. |
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| Joshkl2013 |
Posted on 01/16/2013 21:47:36
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Numpty
Posts: 1443
Joined: 26.05.12
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tim wrote:
Hercules wrote:
I'll just leave this subject alone. A little too controversial. This type of debate tends to create a catch 22.
Wow props to you man, I thought I was the only person in the entire internet that actaully read Catch-22. Excellent read and I always use the phrase with my firends and they never get it LOL.
[20:45] [ZÅ]Pärâdøx-Admin: Catch 22 is an awesome book
[20:45] [ZÅ]Pärâdøx-Admin: I cried at the end =(
[20:45] [ZÅ]Hεrç: ??? book
[20:47] [ZÅ]Hεrç: never heard of the book
He didn't read it. =(
Also,
Drkinferno wrote:
*Content removed by Carnage.*
I'm so curious..
Edited by Joshkl2013 on 01/16/2013 21:50:12
I wanna be like RAZ!!! [ZÅ]Paradox
Need a shotgun to protect you while you snipe? Call
1-800-SHOTGUN today!
Need a nuke? Call 1-800-NUKE-ALL
Take advantage of this limited offer now!
Offer expires in 3..2..1...
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| rawr |
Posted on 01/16/2013 22:05:41
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Wanker
Posts: 733
Joined: 30.03.12
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Has any one watched videos on how abortions are done? if not look it up. it is murder.
SIX: 'You shall not murder.' Commandment
Ya woman have rights. an there is a higher crime in murder then there is rape.
So were is children rights in all this? People dont just have abortion cuss there is something wrong with the child. they do just becuase they can.
What We Do In Life Echos In Eternity.
STUPID = Smart Talented Unique Person In Demand
Can you run faster than 1,200 feet per second? In case you didn’t know, that is the average speed of a 9 mm bullet fired from my gun.
Before you criticize people, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them…
you are a mile away from them…
and you have their shoes.
“I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.”
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