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Debate 10: God
The Hat of Love
Posted on 06/13/2012 16:51:25
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weeshuggy wrote:
apperently im not making my self clear somehow about the Schroedinger's Cat, i know what i mean but oh well....

"but the only reason people think that he does is because people always have done"

Now that sentence is a load of balls, God gave us free will we believe in him because we choose to, not because we are told to. (maybe when younger yes, but aftre the age of say 15, not so true.)

Really? If no one believed in God and then one day you saw someone and he told you about God, would you believe him? Some might, but if we'd all just accepted that we don't know for the last few thousand years and everyone was brought up to believe that there was no God and you were given free will to believe in him... well, you wouldn't, would you?

even if he/she/it/they doessn't exist i'd rather live my life with meaning and purpose and die and find out god isnt real, than life my life with no real meaning or purpose and die and find out god is real.

I take issue with this. Firstly, why does life have to have a meaning? Why do we have to be here to serve God or worship him or whatever? Why can't we just enjoy life while we're here?

Secondly, why does not believing in God make your life purposeless? Are you saying that the only real purpose anyone can have in life is serving God? I assume that's not the only thing you were planning on doing with your life.

Thirdly, who says you're going to find out whether God's real when you die? Who says there's an afterlife? Does it explicitly state in the Bible that everyone who dies goes to heaven? Even if it does, we've already proved that the Bible should not be taken at face value.
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GreenEarth
Posted on 06/15/2012 20:28:10
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food for thought
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQhd05ZVYWg
inb4 argumentum ad verecundiam
 
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ninja
Posted on 06/16/2012 06:36:26
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What are you saying about Argumentum ad Verecundiam? That it's valid or not valid?

That's quite an interesting video, especially from about 24:00 onwards. Perhaps those who say that God caused The Big Bang would benefit from watching it.
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PirateKing
Posted on 06/18/2012 14:32:29
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God Exists. if i tried to type all of what i believe in one post it would take a lifeage lol Pfft.
1. God Exists
2. Jesus Christ was God
3. There is only one God. Jesus Christ
4. The Bible is true. all of it because God wrote it through men.
5. ask me anything else in xfire cause its easier lol
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ninja
Posted on 06/18/2012 15:01:16
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PirateKing wrote:
God Exists. if i tried to type all of what i believe in one post it would take a lifeage lol Pfft.
1. God Exists
2. Jesus Christ was God
3. There is only one God. Jesus Christ
4. The Bible is true. all of it because God wrote it through men.
5. ask me anything else in xfire cause its easier lol

Why do you believe all of this? Do you actually have an evidence or reason behind it, or is it just completely irrational, so called "faith", because that's what you've been told?
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The Hat of Love
Posted on 06/18/2012 16:44:42
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Well I can dispute 4 right off - read our posts about Noah's Ark. And doesn't the Bible say Jesus was God's son, not God? So 2 and 4 contradict each other.
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ninja
Posted on 06/18/2012 16:51:31
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The Hat of Love wrote:
Well I can dispute 4 right off - read our posts about Noah's Ark. And doesn't the Bible say Jesus was God's son, not God? So 2 and 4 contradict each other.

I believe the contradiction is built into the beliefs. God is "The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit" - otherwise known as "The Holy Trinity." So, he kind of fathered himself?!
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The Hat of Love
Posted on 06/18/2012 18:19:03
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ShawnPeezy


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Kinky
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PirateKing
Posted on 06/19/2012 18:26:58
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xfire me. it all makes sense if you read the bible. noahs ark is real. or was back in the day. god is 3 in 1. god always existed he always was. we as humans cant wrap our minds around the concept. God the father is who created the unverse nd everything. God the Son is Jesus Christ. a part of God but still God. Nd God the Spirit is theone who endwells us nd lives within us helping us make the right christian choices. they are 3 persons in one. its easier to explain by reading the bible. the evidence is in the bible nd in creation itself. God created everything. man never did. there was no big bang. you cant create anything out of an explosion. never have been able to. there was God nd only one God. always has been. ask me specific Questions nd i'll answer them to the best of my ability
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ledapus
Posted on 06/20/2012 05:40:44
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PirateKing wrote:
God Exists. if i tried to type all of what i believe in one post it would take a lifeage lol Pfft.
1. God Exists
2. Jesus Christ was God
3. There is only one God. Jesus Christ
4. The Bible is true. all of it because God wrote it through men.
5. ask me anything else in xfire cause its easier lol


this is just a belief you have.

If god is so powerful and wonderful then why is he letting millions of children starve in Africa? -.-

to be a dick?
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weeshuggy
Posted on 06/20/2012 08:27:36
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omg i love u pirate. finally someone who will open there mind to other possibilities other than numbers.

"If god is so powerful and wonderful then why is he letting millions of children starve in Africa? -.-

to be a dick? "

its called free will god gave us all it so we aren't simply robots. he doesnt intervene.

although i still do believe in the big bang and stuff i just think god made it happen.

also the whole bible isn't true. ALOT of it is actually paraboles to teach us.

and i agree with pirate once you guys actually UNDERSTAND the bible you might see things differently.
 
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The Hat of Love
Posted on 06/20/2012 11:02:19
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ShawnPeezy


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My mind's open to other possibilities, it just closes again when it sees that it's not very likely.

This is from earlier in the debate since most people probably haven't read the whole thread - the first two quotes are Ninja's, the third is mine.

Hmmm .... I wonder why the story of Noah's ark doesn't stand up. Maybe it didn't actually happen. In fact, maybe most (all?) of the Bible is fiction. What I have read of the Bible (in particular Genesis) didn't really convince me. I confess I haven't leafed through every page of the colossal book myself - but many have, and I hear there are too many contradictions to make most of the content plausible.

Most religions sprouted from the same origins. People love to share (& copy) ideas. It's hardly surprising that similar stories turn up across literature. "Let's think of a dramatic story of destruction ... I know - a huge flood". Noah's Ark is absurd, if you ask me. Groups of animals are somehow collected from all over the world (this would take ages, which the authors probably didn't realise since they knew only of the size of the Earth in terms of where they lives), then there is an unexplained flooding which kills all organisms. Presumably it also kills the simple microorganisms which were too small to collect. I wonder how these simpler organisms are still around today - they wouldn't have evolved from humans, that's for sure ...

When did this massive flood occur? At what point did all but four or five of the human race and a few animals drown? And why is there no evidence for this? It's because, as Ninja and I have said, it's a story and it didn't happen.


The story of Noah's Ark is ridiculous and it didn't happen - what evidence at all do you have, apart from the Bible? We've established early on that even people who believe in God on this thread generally agree that not every part of the Bible is the truth. I believe that much of it is parable, like the Ninjaman said.

As for the Big Bang, we've also discussed this - first off, it wasn't an explosion but an expansion. Secondly, you can't just say 'the universe can't have started off like that, that's ridiculous.' No, that is closed-minded. People who disregard the Big Bang theory so readily are the ones who need to open their minds, not atheists. Of course it might seem ridiculous but then so is the fact that the universe exists at all. It may have had an extraordinary beginning like that. In fact, using something called the redshift of light, we can tell that the universe is expanding. We can see 13.7 billion light years away because the universe has been expanding for 13.7 billion years, since the big bang. And God? There's no reason to say he exists. Like Ninja said, bringing him into the equation just makes things more complicated: where did God come from?

The scientific side of things makes sense. The religious side - it's patchy at best.
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ZA BrickSquad
Posted on 06/20/2012 11:29:57
ShawnPeezy


Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11

The Hat of Love wrote:
My mind's open to other possibilities, it just closes again when it sees that it's not very likely.

This is from earlier in the debate since most people probably haven't read the whole thread - the first two quotes are Ninja's, the third is mine.

Hmmm .... I wonder why the story of Noah's ark doesn't stand up. Maybe it didn't actually happen. In fact, maybe most (all?) of the Bible is fiction. What I have read of the Bible (in particular Genesis) didn't really convince me. I confess I haven't leafed through every page of the colossal book myself - but many have, and I hear there are too many contradictions to make most of the content plausible.

Most religions sprouted from the same origins. People love to share (& copy) ideas. It's hardly surprising that similar stories turn up across literature. "Let's think of a dramatic story of destruction ... I know - a huge flood". Noah's Ark is absurd, if you ask me. Groups of animals are somehow collected from all over the world (this would take ages, which the authors probably didn't realise since they knew only of the size of the Earth in terms of where they lives), then there is an unexplained flooding which kills all organisms. Presumably it also kills the simple microorganisms which were too small to collect. I wonder how these simpler organisms are still around today - they wouldn't have evolved from humans, that's for sure ...

When did this massive flood occur? At what point did all but four or five of the human race and a few animals drown? And why is there no evidence for this? It's because, as Ninja and I have said, it's a story and it didn't happen.


The story of Noah's Ark is ridiculous and it didn't happen - what evidence at all do you have, apart from the Bible? We've established early on that even people who believe in God on this thread generally agree that not every part of the Bible is the truth. I believe that much of it is parable, like the Ninjaman said.

As for the Big Bang, we've also discussed this - first off, it wasn't an explosion but an expansion. Secondly, you can't just say 'the universe can't have started off like that, that's ridiculous.' No, that is closed-minded. People who disregard the Big Bang theory so readily are the ones who need to open their minds, not atheists. Of course it might seem ridiculous but then so is the fact that the universe exists at all. It may have had an extraordinary beginning like that. In fact, using something called the redshift of light, we can tell that the universe is expanding. We can see 13.7 billion light years away because the universe has been expanding for 13.7 billion years, since the big bang. And God? There's no reason to say he exists. Like Ninja said, bringing him into the equation just makes things more complicated: where did God come from?

The scientific side of things makes sense. The religious side - it's patchy at best.


Bringing him into the EQUATION THAT IS NOT FINISHED makes it more complicated.
 
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The Hat of Love
Posted on 06/20/2012 11:34:52
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ShawnPeezy


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What's your point there, Brick? That we don't know everything yet? As I've said before, of course we don't. Does God give us an easy way out of admitting that we don't know everything? Yes.
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ZA BrickSquad
Posted on 06/20/2012 11:42:58
ShawnPeezy


Posts: 5303
Joined: 12.05.11

The Hat of Love wrote:
What's your point there, Brick? That we don't know everything yet? As I've said before, of course we don't. Does God give us an easy way out of admitting that we don't know everything? Yes.


You are right. So is saying that "rubbing bacon on it" fixes everything too. Or the "God of Grass". Get me?
You can replace God with anything else in your sentence and still will make sense in some sort of way.
 
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The Hat of Love
Posted on 06/20/2012 11:51:47
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ShawnPeezy


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Yes, I quite like this one from Leviticus: "If anyone says, "I love bacon," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love bacon, whom he has not seen."

Nope, not seeing your point.
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ZA BrickSquad
Posted on 06/20/2012 12:14:57
ShawnPeezy


Posts: 5303
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The Hat of Love wrote:
Yes, I quite like this one from Leviticus: "If anyone says, "I love bacon," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love bacon, whom he has not seen."

Nope, not seeing your point.


To love something it needs to be physical? Because I love how girls think, but it's not a physical thing I can grab.
 
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PirateKing
Posted on 06/20/2012 13:19:37
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well for one noahs ark is true. the evidence is all around us. the have found fossil sea water clams on the top of a mountain. how did they get there? because there was a worldwide flood. god punished the sinful people on the earth by causing a worldwide flood. god is a merciful god. he wants everyoe to be saved but he doesnt want it to be forced upon them. thats why theres free will. everyone has a choice to believe or not. thats why i believe in God. if you would like the Bible references just askSmile nd i dont rq if poeple dont agree with me lol
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The Hat of Love
Posted on 06/20/2012 13:52:28
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Clams on a mountain top? Must be a flood, right? Or maybe the tops of that mountain weren't always at the top of a mountain. The Himalayas are (only) around 70 million years old - the seabed and the fossilised clams were forced upwards in their creation.

Any more evidence?

Incidentally, how old is the world?
Edited by The Hat of Love on 06/20/2012 14:01:41
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ledapus
Posted on 06/21/2012 09:38:55
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what does pirate have to say to that lol
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